[017] How To Invest in Better Financial Services Leads, with Tracy Laney from Active Prospect

Jason: Hey, what’s going on, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the scalable call center sales podcast. My name again is Jason cutter, and I am excited to have another member of the active prospect team today. My special guest is Tracy Laney.

[00:00:14] Now she is the national sales director for the financial services. Department the team at active prospect. And she came into that role and brings with her over 30 years of experience in so many different ways, creating business verticals, creating business development, teams, sales, sales management, operational excellence, like so many different things, even stepping up.

[00:00:38] And here’s, what’s really cool about her is that I actually have met her several times. We’re recording this in July of 2021 conferences. In-person events are starting to come back, actually had a chance to hang out with her several times and get to know her and see where everything she’s bringing with her from a sales experience.

[00:00:58] Lends itself really well to what she’s doing at active prospect, which is what we’ll talk about. And I know that this is going to be a fun conversation and who knows where it’s going to go. Tracy, welcome to the scalable call center sales podcast.

[00:01:12]

Tracy: Well, thank you very much for having me on. And yes, we tend to have fun when we are together.

[00:01:18] I think the first time virtually we’ve been together, we’ve actually been face-to-face every other time, which is unique in this environment.

[00:01:25]

Jason: Which is definitely funny because of, you know, where the world has been for 15, 18 months. And then, you know, for you and I to have met at conferences and then gone virtual with this one, we’re recording it so much that I was excited.

[00:01:38] I was wanting to call it my previous podcast and, you know, get tongue tied. Cause I just know that we’re gonna have fun. Cause literally before we even hit record, we were having so much fun. We almost forgot. So for people who are listening. Active prospect, which has a couple of main tools that employees, one of the big things.

[00:01:56] And I like to point this out because it was confusing to me for the longest time is that active prospect, which is huge in the lead generation space. Isn’t actually in the lead generation space. So it’s not a company where you’re generating leads, selling leads, marketing performance, but having two tools, which we’ll talk about in the conversation.

[00:02:13] One being trusted form, which helps with compliance. And then one that’s lead conduit, which helps with the flow of leads. So I always like to point that out because I know, and I’m sure you get that a lot where people are confused by that. Uh, where I want to start is let’s talk about the fact that you have a vertical, that you focus on with the team, which is financial services.

[00:02:35] That can be a vague term for some people. Like, what does that include and where are these tools coming into play?

[00:02:42]

Tracy: It is big. Um, so my background is mortgage that’s where I’ve spent most of my life. Um, so I do the mortgage speak. And then what I’m also focusing on is debt credit, personal loans, um, anything that would fall under that vertical actually, um, debt collection.

[00:02:57] There’s a conference that I’ve been on, um, most of the day today. And I’ll be on tomorrow as well, um, in not debt collection as working for debt collection, but actually some of the compliance. I’ve had people reach out and say, Hey, can you help us from a contactability side, not a TCPA side. So whole different use case for trusted for, so it’s kind of a broad umbrella, but it’s been pretty exciting because it’s expanded my knowledge base from just everything you want to know about a 30 year

[00:03:25]

Jason: fixed.

[00:03:26] Okay. So one of the things I know is important is we’ve got financial services. We’ve got this umbrella and yeah. We’ve got all those different categories you talked about, right? From credit repair to loans, personal loans, mortgages, debt, you know, like debt, settlement, debt management, all these debt related things.

[00:03:45] Let’s talk about the difference. Or if you want to start with one vertical in particular like where the market is now, the issues that are facing that. And maybe we’ll take some mortgage, like in mortgage. What are the biggest things? That they’ve been dealing with. And then where is that industry going?

[00:04:01] What should they be looking out for?

[00:04:04]

Tracy: No, I worked for a company that had a huge call center and I used to always call it this got milk campaign. Right. Because you’d have a lead and then it go and then would kind of, yeah. It dropped to the floor. Right. And you always the gut milk, like, wait that milk, let’s go get more of it.

[00:04:17] And I see that a lot of call centers that restaurant like that’s an old lead or it kind of dissipates and falls to the floor. And to me that’s just money. Right? So the more you can optimize what you already have and when we’re actually working on it, Uh, integrations on pushing really hard for that too, but it’s how smarter you being with that?

[00:04:36] So one of the things that I look at it very consultant is what we do, right. Even though we’re software and software guy has a reputation of, you know, here, here you go. And here’s your SAS and see ya. That’s not what we do. It’s certainly not what I do. I’m being relationship building. This is about.

[00:04:53] Sitting down and saying, tell me what you’re doing. Let’s let’s Brian brain meld. Um, so the idea of kind of, when I go in and talk to people, yes, it’s about the safety pillar of TCPA. But what most people don’t know is we have all sorts of insights we can gain from trusted form. And then we’ve got a whole plethora of marketplace integrations.

[00:05:15] So with my background specific to mortgage, you know, the ideas I come up with and say, Hey, Jace, you’ve got know your center. And what happens if the lead comes in and obviously you have an idea of, of, you know, the value of the home or at least with the consumer thinks their value is so let’s say maybe it was a jumbo, right.

[00:05:32] And, but you’re using some of our data points and you know that cause we’ve got a whole meta-data man. We can get deep. This is. Remember, we’re all about enhancing. We’re all about insights. We’re all about intent because all we do active prospect, right? We want you to have as much as you can on that week, right.

[00:05:50] To maximize it. So you have a jumbo loan and then within the data that we can provide, you’re like, Hey, look at what they’ve got. They have an iPhone, right? Because we already know there’s a vast difference between people have an iPhone and an agent. Right. It’s just a different type of consumer. Well, then we have marketplace integration.

[00:06:11] So if I can match those two things and then pull in, say TeleSign and their Verizon carrier, well, Verizon is much different than T-Mobile right. Or a tosser fo. So if I can help my mortgage companies kind of take that as example and say, you’ve got a jumbo loan, you’ve got a. IPhone, you got Verizon, all of that information there, it leans toward a really higher quality bar.

[00:06:40] From that information. So, you know that off the get go, my recommendation would be route that to a, a more experienced loan officer. Like, you know, we all make more money off jumbo loans. That is something we could say. If we could go through lead conduit or, or pushing it into your CRM and route that to, uh, a more experienced loan officer, maybe there’s even a different script to it.

[00:07:03] Right? Well, you have a better chance of converting. And with Lee conduit, we can help track those conversions off that data. So that’s going to let you go in and really look over time and say, Hey, this is working. So now we can look at the volume coming in. We can track that those are some things like the same thing could happen.

[00:07:22] Um, you could use Lee conduit and say, you know, runoff is such a huge thing, right? We all know it’s easier to keep alone in house and to go replace it. And even though refunds are slowing down, that makes runoff even more. So we have the ability to even motor servicing portfolio into Lee conduit. So when you’re purchasing a lead and it pings against it and it’s like, oh my goodness, this is a cutter file.

[00:07:45] And he’s been on our portfolio for two years. Same thing. We could help you have that data and route that to a retention pot, again, whole different scripting, whole different loan officer mentality. Their job is to keep that lead in house. Maybe they’re a few more aggressive with what they can do with, you know, rates, intent, everything else there.

[00:08:06] So we’ve really can get smart about what information you have coming in with those links. To help in that case, keep that loan in house or to route to have better intelligence, to have better scripting and have the right loan officer picking up that phone. So those are some things that were really tossing out those ideas, just say, yeah, not all leads are equal, but what are you doing with your leads to, to differentiate where they go and what data are you pulling in to figure out where they should go?

[00:08:35] And that’s what a lot of people don’t understand that we can help them.

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Jason: Yeah. And one little gem that you put in there, which is the retention piece, right? So maybe someone fills out a form or something happened, but they’re already in the portfolio and you don’t want to lose them. Right. A lot of times that list might get separated or you just don’t even buy that lead.

[00:08:57] But in this case here, if that’s triggered, you want to get. You want to understand that that person is taking that action and maybe they’re shopping and then you want to save them. Right. So I think what’s fascinating and cool to think about just the technology that’s available in general now, versus let’s say the mortgage business that you and I know from 20 years ago, which is how many different ways a company can take in data, deal with data and potentially win.

[00:09:26] If they have these systems in place to create this like scalable sales operation.

[00:09:31]

Tracy: Oh, yeah. And that just, there’s just so many things that we can do to help out with that. And even back to the retention thing, because you know, sometimes you have your call center, new business, and then you have the retention and they don’t always communicate, you know, just the call center may not really care because it’s numbers, but that’s where really in the mortgage business you don’t want, especially if you could.

[00:09:50] All the C’s talking that kind of benefits a company holistically, and that’s kind of where my experience comes in. I can talk to all the divisions of the company. It’s not just me being, you know, a call center talking leads. I understand the differences of the leads. And if you start looking at lead count coming in, and if you can start saving, you know, 10, 15, 20, 50, a hundred leads that are already in the portfolio.

[00:10:16] That’s pretty massive. Yeah. I mean, it’s so I kind of get everybody saying, I know this is your job, and I know this is over here, but have you guys thought about taking this and having that, the bifurcation of where those leads go, because you’ve got guys on this side of the house, just dialing for dollars, you know, trying to keep people in house where they’re already coming in the front door.

[00:10:36] Right. So just again, making people think.

[00:10:40]

Jason: Yeah. And breaking down those silos when talking to a company and just in general, right. And this is one of the big things I always push for. And luckily have always been in charge prior to being a consultant, which was in charge of sales and marketing and usually some aspect of operations because it’s one customer and it’s one company and then everyone else, there’s just one team.

[00:11:01] And not so silent, like you’re talking about. So I don’t always like to be negative. I usually don’t like to be negative, but sticking with the mortgage space, what are companies doing? I just want to say wrong. Like where are they missing the mark or where are they struggling with? Most the ones that you just wish you could like get your hands on them and like, have them listen to.

[00:11:25]

Tracy: I would say a lot of them, they have marketplace integration, but they’re, they’re doing it after they buy the lead. I mean, people don’t realize, you know, lead conduit, think of it as a big tube. Right. And I’m, I’m very professional scientific, you know, sassy talk is a big tube, right? So with one integration into lead conduit, you have access to, you know, 32 integrations.

[00:11:47] And so when you look at, you know, known litigators, blacklist, DNC, TeleSign bright verify for email like CATIA and Nora fraud, it’s you don’t have all these different contracts for one, you don’t have integration. So your it team doesn’t hate your guts or say, yeah, you can have it. And bring months when we have time and you’re not committing to them as plug and play.

[00:12:09] So you can actually kind of go on a monthly while you’re figuring out a tech stack. But when I talk to people, they’re like, oh yeah, we have black lists. I’m like, okay. But the blacklist is after they bought the li right. Okay. Well, what people don’t realize what we conduit. We have all sorts of things that you can reject up front.

[00:12:28] Right? So time on page, right? They were on the page. Four seconds is bad actors. Why would you buy that lead, reject that lead, right? Um, if it’s a no litigator or why do you even want them anywhere out of your house? Um, so there are all sorts of things we can set up. Cut big, you know, duplicate, let’s start with that.

[00:12:46] Did you just buy that leap? Right? Market’s compressed. So you’re buying are people, oh, please get me on my performance marketing dating site. And we’ll talk about that here in a minute. Um, but you, you know, get your duplicates and then go through just the litany of, can you contact him if it’s a known mitigator emails, not contactable phone.

[00:13:04] Isn’t why are you even buying them? Because remember from the lead provider too. And I actually had Matt Tillman from right marketplace on one of the webinars we did address it. Nobody really, you know, you say, Ooh, reject leads and nobody’s thrilled with it. But the reality of this is happening in under a second.

[00:13:21] It’s a real time lead. They can go sell somewhere somewhere else. Right. And so that’s what conversations you need to have with your lead providers. But you have that benefit is still real, real time instead of H data truing up later. But you have all of that ability. That you can do the recheck, but people are buying the lead and then running it through separately.

[00:13:41] And so now you’re going to call, you’re not going to call the litigator, right. Or oops, you now, now, you know, the telephone doesn’t work. Okay. Now you’re going to put them on an email campaign. Okay. We’ll pass that. Working for you, where you could actually run the conduit, the phone doesn’t work, you could do an email campaign, then watch your conversions.

[00:13:59] See if that worked. And you’re saying we’re really not getting conversions off that. Well, then you could choose to reject off of that phone number later. I mean, there are all these combinations by plugging and playing that you can look and figure out is this working. So you’re AB AB testing your own texts.

[00:14:15] Without the commitment of all of these contracts. So that’s the flexibility that we have. So it’s not that what they’re doing wrong. They just put themselves into contracts that they’re spending all this money and they don’t even know if they’re going to work, you know, and then they don’t test it because they’re stuck with it.

[00:14:31] Anyway.

[00:14:32]

Jason: Yeah. And it’s maybe not fully integrated. I mean, I’ve seen that a lot. Yeah. Internally when an organizations have been, and then now as a consultant where people are buying the tools, either they’re talked to, into it by a salesperson, or they’re trying to fix their sales ops problem by buying new tools.

[00:14:50] Right. That’s like wanting a better car. So you like just keep buying tools for the garage, but you don’t use them or know how to use them. And so it just ultimately doesn’t work. You’re making

[00:15:00]

Tracy: fun of my exercise equipment. Are you making fun of my exercise equipment? You know,

[00:15:06]

Jason: not at all. Okay. Maybe a little, no, but like, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s like just buying it and having it, or like you said, frustrating the crap out of your, uh, tech team, your it team and people who are integrating it or having to deploy it isn’t necessarily going to solve it.

[00:15:22] Uh, where I always think simple is better because just because you have all the tools, if it’s too complicated, it still won’t.

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Tracy: Well, and people don’t realize you can bring your own credentials for just about anything for lead conduit can do a call out to just about anything. So again, instead of having all this spaghetti of what your stack looks like, you can start cleaning everything up with Lee conduit and you could have, you know, your trusted form TCPA and your marketplace integrations, and then, okay, you want this we’ll pull, we can call out to that and you just streamlines everything.

[00:15:56] And it’s still just these very simple integrations into what we have. I mean, we’ve been doing this for 16 years because that’s the other thing people forget. We were around for lead integrity long before TCPA ever became a thing. That’s what we were created for. Are you who you say you are? Are you selling me?

[00:16:14] What I think I’m supposedly buying and let me verify it. So this technology has been around. It’s proven we deal. If you’ve been on our website, you know, we’ve got massive logos that we do business with. One of the reasons they use us is really it’s to move data at the end of the day, it’s to move large amounts of data.

[00:16:35] And to do it in a seamless way to do it effortlessly. And we deal with some of the biggest logos you’ve ever heard, because it’s easier for us to do it than for them to go create their own. And that is one thing I see in the mortgage business. It kind of makes me giggle because everybody wants to build their own.

[00:16:53] And you know, in this market pivot that we’re starting to see. You know, you have to go and you have to get it together and you have to have the team. And then you have the enterprise change team that comes in and then you have the project managers and then you start to build it. Right. But then you have the whole maintaining of it.

[00:17:10] You start looking at the cost of building something and the maintenance of it over a years, and I’m kind of. We can do this for you. You have a whole team, you know, you start using it, you have ideas. We have an ongoing project for it. If it’s something that makes sense, maybe we’ll even develop something for you.

[00:17:33] We do that as well. That what we do advancements on are what our customers have brought and said, this is what we need. You have an incredible 24 hour support team. They even have the little things like ups, you know, buzz them up in the middle of the night when something happens. It’s, there’s just so much support and enjoy you, just ideas.

[00:17:52] And, you know, people go and spend bazillion dollars and then come back to us and say, let’s start talking about this again. And the mortgage company more than any other vertical. That’s what I see the most in the mortgage company. You know, we want to own it. We want to build it. And it’s so exciting. And the maintenance is ongoing forever.

[00:18:10] And how do you keep it updated? I mean, I look at our huge amount of engineers keeping updated what we do and mortgage companies don’t have floors of engineers, but they want to build their own stuff.

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Jason: So most of what you were talking about a few minutes ago is either what works and are what you wish they would do.

[00:18:32] But it seems like that’s across all industries, right? Like having an integrated tech stack and having a simpler solution earlier in the pipeline. Not just mortgage, but everybody. So let’s pivot just a little bit and talk about some of the other verticals like dat and where that has different challenges or operates different, or what are you seeing that debt, as opposed to the mortgage side needs to be watching out for, if somebody is listening to this and they’re running a debt call center or sales team, like what are you seeing it’s working or not working and what they should be doing?

[00:19:08]

Tracy: I loved it. Dad has been so much fun for me because I’m a constant learner. So I went to the AFC STI in Miami. I think you were there. I think pizza was involved at some point. Very good pizza. Um, so AFC was very interesting for me because it actually was one of those that’s compliance. So everybody was in the room.

[00:19:25] So I got to learn a lot. What’s amazed me about debt because I’ve been running since my. Debt is, is siloed in the fact, and you are talking about this earlier, um, that people go to work for companies and they stay, and there’s not a lot of movement, unlike the mortgage company where people will move around.

[00:19:43] So there’s not a lot of tribal knowledge where people share knowledge by moving around to different countries. And I actually have been shocked is not too strong of a word that they don’t know much about TCPA. Like literally I’m bringing on companies that they didn’t understand for one how easy it is to get protected with trusted form from TCPA claims.

[00:20:04] They I’m trying to think even a way to put it is just surprised me. And then from a lead, um, acquisition. Point of view. I’ve been, this goes into my performance market, the dating site. It’s just being able to introduce them to lead providers that are trusted vendors of ours, but in depth, they also, again, going back to you can do things smarter, right?

[00:20:27] We have suppression lists. We can put anything in a suppression list, which is going back to a servicing portfolio for mortgage. But they do a lot of direct mail, a lot of prepaid credit cards. I do a lot of direct mail. So if you’ve got direct mail and you have digital, when I’m showing them how we can load up, you know, your direct mail pieces and what’s coming in digital and you can work that data with each other.

[00:20:52] So, you know, again, so if you have direct mail, somebody hit or pardon me, a digital, somebody hits on a four, but you know, you’ve already touched them a couple of times with direct mail. Well, again, why you want, you want that one to go to the top of the, you know? Yeah. So, but they haven’t been using any of that information.

[00:21:10] It’s just another league right now. I would rather, if it’s costing me up. Right to do a prepaid credit card because of the cost of mail. And I’ve already mailed to them twice and they’re coming in digitally and I can stop this. Oh my goodness. So just showing them the tools that we can use to help them not even cut costs, but, um, also through the website that the consumer’s coming in on can even.

[00:21:35] Over time translate into, okay, this is where the websites are hitting. They put in creatives into those mailers. So we could even target some of help them target to those websites. What’s getting their attention. I mean, so again, it’s, we have all this information that we can sit down and say, here’s some things for you to think about.

[00:21:53] Here’s some things we can help you track. Um, it’s just a whole new space that really, they just, they haven’t met Tracy. They haven’t met active prospects. And so that’s become very exciting because they’re hungry to learn. So it’s really, really good people, really, really good programs. Um, they just really don’t know what else is available to them.

[00:22:12]

Jason: Hey, it’s Jason here. We’ll be right back to the podcast in a moment, but first are you ready to help your insight sales team close more deals? In my experience, there’s a certain percentage of your team that acts more like order takers than sales professionals. The first step to creating a scalable sales team is to equip your reps with the right mind.

[00:22:29] And proven strategies to transform them into quota breakers, to build a team of authentic persuaders that will crush their goals. Email [email protected] or go to www.Cutterconsultinggroup.com. So you had mentioned too, that like with the debt, you’re surprised how much they don’t know about TCPA compliance stuff.

[00:22:51] They’re just playing the game that they’re playing. What are you seeing as far as like the adoption or the, the trends of companies, whether you’re talking to them or just in the industry now that you’ve spent time? Where they’re wanting to be compliant. They’re knowing that they need to take care of it versus, and this is a group and I know that we’ve talked about it and I’ve talked to some other attorneys about it, where there’s the group that just says, ah, I’ll just deal with the fines and the penalties instead of being proactive.

[00:23:21]

Tracy: Well, it’s interesting because there are two different. Parts of that, right? I mean, you’re got to have both. I mean, um, I, in every vertical they have that. Um, but what is very interesting and I can’t quote it off the top of my head, I’ll be happy to follow up with it. But, um, there was just a case that I was made aware of where there was a company that was sued and for TCPA.

[00:23:44] And they went to their insurance company and was like, oh, golly, gee, here we go again. And the insurance company took them to court and. The insurance company one, and they were able to prove that the company was operating willfully with knowledge that they were not TCPA compliant and they did not have to pay it.

[00:24:04] Wow. So I think there’s, you know, the things like that that are out there, but overall I will say it’s people want to be compliant. I mean, they do it. So it’s a matter of sitting down and figuring out, I think the hardest thing is quite honestly, and I’m very transparent is budgeting. You know, they’re like, oh my goodness.

[00:24:21] Now I know we have a problem. Let’s figure out a budget. And that’s one thing that I think active prospects very good about is that we sit with them. Being safe than being efficient than being scalable. And so I tell everybody we’re like Legos, so let’s get the foundation done first. And so it’s like, let’s just get you TCPA compliant.

[00:24:43] And there’s a lot of data we can get done there. You know? So using debt, you know, there’s more coverage there than anywhere else. So there are things we can do also for intent. So when I tell them we can scan pages for free items. Right. And we can scan for consent language to make sure they’re approved.

[00:25:00] Language is on there. And those are things that we can take care of them and protect them for. So there are a lot of things that we can, can help improve their lead quality and make them TCPA compliant. Then I’m like, look, once you improve those leads, you start rejecting the ones that are bad, that aren’t compliant that are one, a free iPad that are four seconds on a page that are coming from out of the country.

[00:25:23] You know, all of those things then take that same money. They didn’t, let’s take a really big at converting, you’re saying money. And then that’ll take that into a known litigator. Now, take that into checking phone numbers. Now take that in and start building your tech stack with the same way. Because, you know, we see it in verticals all across kind of an average of 15 to 20% of the leads that get kicked.

[00:25:48] But we see about a five times ROI improvement by using kind of a full tech stack of improving the lead quality over there. But I like to try to use that same money. So it makes more sense than kind of going and begging your team to start moving numbers around in the columns.

[00:26:05]

Jason: And I, I think that’s the biggest thing and yeah.

[00:26:08] Obviously, I’ve been fortunate to work with some companies as a consultant where they get it right. They’re open to it, which is why they’re engaging someone like me. But I think that’s the biggest thing. If people are listening to this and they’re like, I, you know, adding trusted form is an expense and running this through a where, like I had rich con on, on the podcast as well.

[00:26:26] And it’s like, okay, that’s going to be an expense. I’m just adding on. Things Allah cart, it’s going to make for a very expensive, but stepping back. And instead of looking at those costs, looking at the investments and then calculating some kind of return on investment, like what would that mean though?

[00:26:40] Both or including obviously there’s the saving of the leads and then converting more. Yeah. What about your reps time? What about the technology? What about compliance? What about the legal side? I mean, even down to the fact of just having your reps talk to 20%, less people that are garbage, that you’re chasing, like what if they use that time?

[00:26:58] And they’re more effective? Like how many essentially, you know, hours of labor are you saving and then how are they productive? And then there’s the morale of them, you know, having good conversations.

[00:27:09]

Tracy: Well, you know, we are called active prospect, right? Like raise your hand. We are consent based marketing. I mean, we do believe that is the best channel for customer acquisition.

[00:27:20] Right? It’s consent based consent based is I’m raising my hand. I mean, Steve will tell you he’s the most mellow guy in the world, but he will stop his foot and say no consent. No. I mean, that is what his mission is, but it’s that sounds up front like, well, but when you, everything you just said, when you have the back room, I mean, we’re all in the call center business.

[00:27:44] It’s tough, man. It is just dialing for dollars. And when you start to get those incremental changes, it’s like when you start to see, oh, this amount of leads, we were able to stop. You know, then you also have from a management point, this amount of leads for known litigators. Right now, these amount of leads look at what’s our contactability rate improvement, you know, to be able to say, no, Ms.

[00:28:08] Smith, you really, this, you did remember, and here’s blah, blah, blah. Or you get that first in. And you’re like, Hey, Mr. Cutter, no problem. Your email is, let me take. Cause that’s the other thing. Remember? We sit on your CRM. There’s no cold storage. There’s no, Hey, I want this. So as soon as somebody says, you call me, you’re not supposed to, right.

[00:28:30] Whether it’s an attorney or an individual, that moment you have access to a share URL. That’s going to be going to have not only that. But it’s going to have an actual video replay of every keystroke, every oops, you ever seen the demo with me doing it? You see online? Oops. Apparently I can’t type under pressure, you know, every keystroke and they’re going to have that instantly.

[00:28:53] And that’s where our customers tell us they just go away. I mean, just because it’s right there and the fact that there’s no, you know, people talk speed to lead being so important in our business. Well, I look at it when you have a claim as fast as you can get that proof too. Within five to seven days, you get people getting really excited and they get themselves wound up.

[00:29:12] If it takes that long to go get evidence, we’ve got it right there. And so, I mean, those, all those little incremental things, better lead quality, better morale. Here’s your trusted form. If there’s a claim, those things really add up and just the whole ecosystem, um, Betterly quality for your costs.

[00:29:32]

Jason: So let’s shift a little bit once more.

[00:29:35] So you’ve been on the operational side, but then also in sales and sales leadership for quite a big chunk of your career, right. It passed before this. And then now in this, the part that I am curious about and want to know more about, because this is the scalable call center sales podcast is what are you seeing?

[00:29:58] As an evolution of sales and sales strategies that you’re seeing with the clients and companies that you feel are successful in their vertical and in their industry and or where do you see the consumer changing and what they are looking for when they’re interacting? Right? Because you, yes, you’re not dealing with the sales side directly, but you’re seeing the results of that.

[00:30:24] And I know that you’re picking up on who’s doing sales work. And what they’re doing

[00:30:31]

Tracy: question because it’s, um, it’s not a simple answer, right? If you look at the mortgage business and you look at these companies that are amazing and what they’ve done, you know, and what they’ve built, even though they all technically have the same product, it’s different.

[00:30:45] Right. I see consistency where they, and at first of all, I applaud mortgage specifically that they were able to take these call centers. Offsite. That to me is the most phenomenal. Um, because you take what is traditionally an incredible tight environment, um, very structured and they’ve still done incredibly well.

[00:31:06] So it’s interesting to me to see who’s starting to bring people back. Who’s going hybrid. I think the flexibility, um, I just I’m in awe. I mean, if you would’ve told me two and a half years ago, I’d be like, no way. There’s another way to go. They can do this. I mean, I, my environment was team leads, walking around the pods and people airdropping on call halls and it’s not experimenting, but I just see different ways people are doing business.

[00:31:29] So sound just do extremely well with the script. You know, they bring people in and they put them through all of the testing. They don’t want people with experience, right. Because I want to take them from granted. And they know one way and I’m, you know, stop that being a kind of a way people were doing it.

[00:31:46] And then what’s been interesting is to see the competitive environment in the call centers to where now they’ve gotten so good at what they’re doing. Right. But now you’re seeing call centers with the same demand to grab ellos that you’re seeing from. You know, from the retail environment. Um, and that’s been very interesting to me because it’s, I’ve seen that more over the last couple of years where there’s the recruiting, this is just as aggressive.

[00:32:15] From one call center to another. I know of an example where somebody was in a major city call center environment and literally grabbed a couple of people on a recruiting. They went and called their buddies and went from one parking lot on one side and all walked across to the other parking lot, um, later in the day.

[00:32:32] So that to me has been very interesting where it’s really coming down to the quality of the salespeople and, um, just that they get. I think that’s been interesting also. Um, I think from a call center environment where years ago it was kind of like we’re going to pay them this, and then we’re going to kind of bonus them.

[00:32:51] But, um, I’ve been impressed to watch. These companies really realized with it’s not so much keeping calls that are like, oh, here’s field sales and here’s call center. I mean the amount of call center reps that are out earning people on the street. It is phenomenal. I mean, again, I applaud them the amount of money that’s being made in call centers and that management realize, look, sky’s the limit, right?

[00:33:13] We’re not go run. What can we do for you? So I’m not giving you a really clear answer because it’s just it’s every shop is so different. And to me, I guess my answer is I don’t have an answer. I’ve seen the adaptability. Move in ways that I just applaud the industry. I mean, that’s the only way I can say that I’m seeing

[00:33:34]

Jason: things.

[00:33:36] The answer is great because it’s the adaptability, it’s the flexibility. And then it’s also realizing it’s about the people. And there’s one part that you mentioned, which I think is important, which you talked about. Companies that are hiring new people with no experience and then training them, basically molding them the way they want.

[00:33:55] And it’s not that that’s the only way to go. It’s just that as an organization, what I tell people all the time is you got to know who you’re willing to hire and then invest in and how long you need. Before they’re closing deals. And then also how much of a fit you have to have them be within your system and then hiring, right?

[00:34:14] Because then you can succeed whether it’s veterans or it’s, you know, people with no experience. Um, and then, yeah, it’s that, that recruiting piece. Where do you see sales going from dealing with consumers? Do you see consumers changing? They’re looking for what they want. How do they want to be interacted with.

[00:34:34] Whether within active prospect or just in the landscape of sales, because you’ve been around it and managing it for a while.

[00:34:41]

Tracy: If you would’ve told me five years ago, I go online, click a few things and somebody bring a car to my front door. You know, I just, it’s just very interesting to me, you know, where, um, actually my daughters and I were having this conversation, my oldest, daughter’s going to college in a couple of weeks.

[00:34:58] And so we’re looking for some things, there’s some differences, you know, and she’s very comfortable getting online without even questioning. Right. Just this, just get it online. And I’m like, Ooh, it’s resold on marketplace on Facebook. And not exactly. It’s not like the local next door thing. Right. You know, from a consumer point, that was no big deal.

[00:35:18] To me, I little bit more skeptical, you know, let me do a little bit of homework are there. So, you know, I just want ease. I think there’s going to be a big change with so many people moving out in the cities. You know, you’ve got, I look at the amount of people just being in Texas last week. And I’m from California.

[00:35:33] Originally. You got people who are moving out. They’re not moving back to the city. So then when you get, you get even you’re moving to Austin, but you’re in the suburbs and wait to get into it. You hour drive or move. It gets real convenient to be on online, even if you’re not an online shopper, you know, and you know, where I live in the middle of the sticks, I don’t, it I’m online.

[00:35:54] You know, it takes a lot for me to go somewhere. So there’s an evolution. To me. I am surprised, um, of the big buys, like I said, the car buys, I think the mortgage industry has morphed even into the purchase market. We saw that during COVID and I think COVID pushed that, you know, with the market movement where you couldn’t wait to go see the house, you couldn’t wait to go.

[00:36:13] I mean, you were get pre-qualified you were putting in your offers. So that I think has been great for the mortgage business, because if it was still more traditional, people were kind of stuck at home. People are tangible, I think, to a large degree of purchase and we got moved out of that mode. Um, and so that is also interesting to see what mortgage companies are, are mastering the purchase from a call center environment and others that are still hitting, you know, they’re pretty much refiled.

[00:36:39] They don’t quite have that down because again, it’s, it’s this, that is more scripting. If you don’t have. Loan officers that have been in that environment before purchase is very different. You are fighting that local realtor. There’s a lot of dynamics in that. So home purchase, it’ll be interesting to see the stats as we go.

[00:36:58] What we’re call center closes comparatively. That’s going to be interesting to you.

[00:37:04]

Jason: Well, and I think some of that, what you were just sharing is the convenience factor, the instant gratification factor, the fact that people don’t want to wait, like you were talking about the housing market during COVID where you couldn’t go, or you had to wait, it’s like, you don’t have that time.

[00:37:20] Um, and then I also wonder like your car example, where I had a friend who did that, where he ordered it from basically from an app and then it got delivered to him. How much of that is. A reaction to how people feel about having to deal with salespeople and what they don’t want to have to put up with or what they expect or think they’re going to have to deal with and an indication.

[00:37:43] Right? That’s what I say all the time. It’s like, if you think sales is not a bad word, look at the fact that someone would write they’re order a car from a vending machine. Then I go into a dealership and deal with somebody and roll the dice on how it’s going to go.

[00:37:56]

Tracy: I had a terrible car-buying experience last year.

[00:37:59] Terrible. And I got to tell you, I not stay angry about anything. And it was such a stereo. Typical female goes into a car dealership kind of thing, and I might die in this car. Let me just tell you that, because to your point, my girlfriend got one of the car online banks, and basically it was within X amount of time.

[00:38:22] Return it. No questions asked. And had I had that, I would’ve returned my car within two days. And to me that is something I would definitely look at whatever I did the next time on what’s the return policy, because there was something about the car that they said, oh, too bad. And, um, had I had, I will look at my exit strategy.

[00:38:44] For the next car I get because of this experience. And I got to tell you, if you tell me to buy a car on loan like that, I would have laughed at you. But if I have an exit strategy to your point, I will definitely look at that.

[00:38:56]

Jason: Well, and it’s interesting, cause I wish I could have seen it or been a fly on the wall, knowing you as well as I’ve gotten to know you over the past, like four months and knowing what they probably assumed as you come in all nice and sweet to buy a car and they don’t know like your sales experience and all your background in business and operations and stuff and what they thought they were going to do.

[00:39:17] Um, yeah.

[00:39:22]

Tracy: Yeah, I that’s over my skis. I’ve literally I’m at the mercy. That’s just something that’s just not, even though it was sales, it that’s just not.

[00:39:32]

Jason: But the unknown. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:33]

Tracy: That’s not something I’m good at. That’d be like, go buy a John Deere caterpillar.

[00:39:41]

Jason: Well, and that’s the thing for our sales organizations to keep in mind too, is that, and this is what I make sure people remember in, in sales operations is if somebody, if a consumer is filling out a form and willing to take a call or make a phone call from a letter or whatever that looks like they really want the help.

[00:39:58] And they really looking for guidance, it’s up to you to do it right. And help them make the right decision, you know, versus the experience you had. So I’m so glad you’re here. It’s been so fun chatting with you and the other members. And you know, I mean, these conversations with active prospect, from these different verticals, which for me, and anyone knows me like debt and finance, that’s pretty much where I’ve spent all of my career in call centers and running and selling.

[00:40:24] So I knew this was going to be super fun. Uh, for people who are interested in finding out more, I know they can go to active prospect.com. I know that there’s a ton of information. You mentioned earlier, lots of case studies, lots of information, blogs, articles, things like that. I also know that people can find you you’re pretty active on LinkedIn.

[00:40:43] So Tracy Laney, L a N E Y. If they look you up, you’re on LinkedIn, anywhere else that, uh, you know, people can find you, people can find what you’re doing.

[00:40:53]

Tracy: Yeah, I would definitely, um, LinkedIn, all my contacts there. I actually answer my cell phone. I’m very active with the conferences. And then just one other thing that I did want to point out.

[00:41:03] And I, I do joke about it a little bit, but it’s become something that I’m really happy that I’m engaged with. The big disconnect I found in our industry is that in special markets are changing or expanding. People don’t know where to go and find new sources. And, and I bust out my lead vendors, friends, because I’m like, your names are so weird.

[00:41:24] Like if they’re going to go look for lead providers, they can’t Google it. I’m like, do you even have a marketing department for you being in marketing? I kind of thing. And what I really encouraging people right now across all verticals, especially in, in finance, you know, that’s getting ready to take off right.

[00:41:41] And credit it just because there’s more Torrens are coming off. These forbearances are coming off. Checks are getting cut off or slowing down. You know, people are going to have to start paying things that they haven’t. I mean, they really, because they’ve also been hurting in many cases because things weren’t being able to be collected.

[00:41:55] So they’re positioning, they’re looking for more traffic, um, mortgages, we’re seeing some compression, you know, people are looking. And so what a lot of times, what they will do is they’ll go to the bigger names that are known industry-wide. I mean, consumers know them and those are some incredible companies, right.

[00:42:11] But there are a lot of people who I, I just don’t have relationships. Right. I mean, I have friends in the business that I’ve had for decades with SS on their insulin. I just tell people, start having conversations now. Right. Start having them now, because it’s important that I could call you and say, Hey Jason, we got things are changing.

[00:42:30] And tell me what you’re doing. What kind of campaigns are you running? Let’s talk about this. This industry really likes to help each other out right now that can make money off each other. Don’t get me wrong. But I really like the fact that I can connect people and even having connecting some people and coming I’ve just really even said, you need to go talk to this person over here.

[00:42:51] I think I’ve even done that with you, just because I feel there’s a lot of people running in tandem that if they just have some communication. There’s just some really good ideas that are happening. There’s some people who, you know, in mortgage business that I can say, Hey, have you met these people? Go talk to them in depth, same thing.

[00:43:06] You know, some of these people, do you even know these people over here? I have another friend in the industry and they just opened up two different verticals, right? I’m like, oh, goodness. Well here, let me just make a couple phone calls. Do you know about this? And that’s why I laugh and say, I’m David.

[00:43:20] Because there’s just, you know, we’ve got Randy, who’s setting up a publisher program for us. There’s just not really a place where people can find that information and active prospect is pretty proud of the fact that we really are placed to connect people. And that’s something that’s really important to us.

[00:43:35] So I just kind of wanted to put that out there too, that if you are looking to buy, to sell, getting your name out there, we’d love to hear from you. We can definitely help amplify that information.

[00:43:44]

Jason: Well, and I’m glad that you said that, and I will second that about you in particular. I’ve always tried to do that and collect information and know who to connect people with, but you take it to a completely different level, especially when you’re running around in person at conferences, literally grabbing people and introducing them to others, like in the moment.

[00:44:03] So second than anyone’s, anyone’s listening to this, this, and you’re in those spaces are looking for those recommendations. Definitely reach out to you. And, uh, yeah, that’d be great. So thank you for being here and sharing everything on the show. I appreciate you and what you’re doing for the industry and for everything you shared

[00:44:21]

Tracy: today, this has been wonderful.

[00:44:23] Cannot wait to see you. Three-dimensionally very soon.

[00:44:26]

Jason: Once again. We’ll do it. Well, thanks for joining and we’ll catch everyone on the next episode.

[00:44:32]

Tracy: Take care.